By Michael Buckley
08 Apr 2007

I've had the pleasure of interviewing Jerry Herman on several occasions, and as we speak he's just returned from "a cruise of the Mexican Riviera," on which his songs were performed (on three different nights) by Brent Barrett, Sally Mayes, Jason Graae and Klea Blackhurst. "The four of them knocked me out!" exclaims Herman.

I tell him how much I enjoyed the documentary and that it so captures his spirit. "What this really is for me is a great gift that I didn't expect. I had no idea [how good] it would turn out," Herman says. "I did several interviews with Amber Edwards, and I knew that she was interviewing people who were part of my life. I thought it would be kind of a 'And-then-I-wrote' film. I didn't know I was going to be so moved. I'm absolutely thrilled! It's hard to do a person's life in 90 minutes, and Amber Edwards chose very astutely. For me, [the film's] a chance at longevity — for people, 50 years from now, to know a little about me and my work."

Incorporated in the film are photographs and archival footage (much of it never seen in public), including Carol Channing doing the original Hello, Dolly! title song, Super-8 film of Angela Lansbury in Mame and Dear World, numbers from Mack and Mabel, scenes from La Cage aux Folles, Pearl Bailey singing "Before the Parade Passes By," George Hearn's "I Am What I Am," and film of the college musical, Sketchbook, that Herman penned, in 1955, at the University of Miami.

Among those appearing are Carol Channing, Angela Lansbury, Charles Nelson Reilly, Marge Champion, Arthur Laurents, Michael Feinstein (speaking of Herman's songs: "To be simple without becoming cliché is almost impossible"), Fred Ebb, George Hearn, Phyllis Newman, Charles Strouse (who claims, "The three strongest drives in human beings are food, sex, and re-writing somebody else's musical"), Don Pippin, Francine Pascal, Leslie Uggams, Jason Graae, Miles Kreuger and Ken Bloom.

Asks Herman, "Isn't [the interview with] Charles Nelson Reilly the funniest thing you've seen? He's one-of-a-kind; always has been. Then, after all the laughs, he looks into the camera and says, 'It was the best time of my life — because we were young, and we had a dream.' That was so moving." Also touching are moments when Herman speaks about his beloved mother (whose reason for throwing a party one time was because "It's Today") and remembering his late partner, Marty Finkelstein.

Regarding Michael Feinstein's statement about Herman's "simple" lyrics: "I think that's the one thing that hasn't been said clearly in the documentary. Everyone has a different reason why I write the way I do. I really am true to the source material; I love getting immersed in it. I love writing for character. That's why it took eight months to come up with the idea for 'I Won't Send Roses.' It's not the way I think, it's the way that Mack Sennett thought. Getting to that is just as important as the writing time. I love that song."

Herman writes music and lyrics simultaneously, much like John Kander and Fred Ebb worked — except he does it alone. "I talk to myself a lot. 'What do you think of this line?' I get excited and say, 'Well, I've got to write a melody right there.' Sometimes, I invent things in bed and run to the piano in the morning. The music and lyric happen sequentially. I never put a melody to a lyric, or a lyric to a tune."

Is it true, as stated in the film, that Herman can't read or write music? "Yes. I am still not adept at writing music down or reading a new piece of music. Through the years, I had to find a language that I could use with my orchestrators. I know chord names and all the terminology that trained musicians use."

I ask about his saying in the film that writing a title song for Dear World was a mistake. "Oh, what an enormous mistake! They really threw stones at me for that — and, in that case, [the critics] weren't wrong. It was very hard to say no to the producer [who insisted on a title song]. Today, I would say no, because I'm more secure. I think the show would have been better without that song." He's very fond of the song "And I Was Beautiful."

He still believes "that Mack and Mabel had as much going for it as Dolly and Mame put together. The book [by Michael Stewart] was a problem. But now, Francine Pascal [Stewart's sister] has re-written it."

Before saying goodbye, I give him best wishes from Marcia Lewis (whose Broadway debut was as Ernestina Money in Dolly, with Phyllis Diller and then Ethel Merman). The night before, I had dined with Marcia and her husband Fred Bryan, who were visiting from their Tennessee home. "Oh, I love Marcia! I always thought that she would be a great new Dolly. She has all the equipment to do a new Dolly — without copying."

For more information about the Jerry Herman documentary and to see a preview clip, click here.

Amber Edwards and Jerry Herman
photo by Helen Montgomery-Drysdale

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