By Kenneth Jones
06 Aug 2011

	Richard Rodgers and Lorenz Hart.

Lorenz Hart really made Rodgers sound so different than how his music is with other lyricists.
JD: So different.

I love his language, I love his skewed and quirky ways, and even though some would dismiss his lyrics as sometimes artificial or impure or forced, there's obviously room for Larry Hart in the world.
JD: I think so too. I find the lyrics very tender, very moving, very funny sometimes.

He wrote some delicious verses.
JD: Oh my God! Well, they're the best bits.

Do you retain those?
JD: Yes, a number of them. Not every single one, but verses to things like "Where or When," we kept. Quite a few — the verse to "Isn't It Romantic?" we kept. Quite a number. Interestingly, most of the verses are sung by Woman 5, by Donna's woman. I suppose she carries them. There's a lot of wisdom in her verses. They set up the song. They're like sonnets to me. You can think of it like an evening of sonnets, of musical sonnets, and she carries a lot of the wisdom of the piece. Please God, may we get wiser as we get older! So, the verses sit very well in that context…

Is there a sense of innocence to experience in the show?
JD: Yes, there is. A definite sense of innocence. The youngest girl, Lauren Molina, who played Johanna in Sweeney Todd, plays the youngest [Miss Jones] and she carries the innocence of the piece. There is definitely a big element of sadness, and there's definitely some bitterness, and there's definitely reconciliation. I mean, there's hope — not for the relationship, but hope in the fact that the relationship can be put together in the end. It finishes with, "I didn't know what time it was. I'm wise, and I know what time it is now." Finishes with those very beautiful words.

 

	Michael Cerveris and Patti LuPone in Sweeney Todd.
	photo by Paul Kolnik

I'm looking forward to Ten Cents a Dance because I think this will be the first time I see your actor-musician idea in a non-book form.
JD: That's right. It's the first time it is not in a revival of something that has already been famous and been very successful. I mean, the two shows that I am really known for in this way here — Sweeney Todd and Company — were, of course, classic, iconic shows in their own right before I came along and tinkered with them and did it this way.

This, I hope, is a stepping stone in a way, because what I would really, really like to happen is for me to collaborate with writers to start to write for the form — [finding] stories and musical theatre stories that can embrace the form; that the form [was] actually organically what stimulated the story in the first place. That's my dream, but that takes a lot of time to do that kind of development.

For example, to completely riff, if you were doing a musical about members of a jazz quartet in transition, and exploring what was happening in their lives, this actor-musician form would be a match.
JD: Absolutely right. That would be a match because that would be a real [music-based] story. Could you write a musical about what happens in an orchestra pit? Probably. But, equally, you can take the work of an artist. You can take the work of Chagall, for example, you know, which is full of images of people flying with violins in their hand, and create a piece of theatre around that imagery, for example. It can allow you to go to places. It can either keep you in a world where it's exactly what you said — a jazz band and all the complexities of the interrelationships with that, and that's a real situation — or it can take you to a fanciful place and let you sit in that, which can be rather wonderful.

About Ten Cents a Dance, do you hope that it becomes a licensable property?
JD: Well, that would be great, but at the moment I am genuinely not thinking about it being done beyond here and at Princeton. That will give people an opportunity to see it properly, and that would give it the opportunity to become a licensable property. It will depend on how people will feel about it. I don't think people can keep doing it this way, but it could be certainly something that could be done by five women and one man at the piano. It can be done that way, and it's lovely to hear the songs exposed.

We haven't talked about your secret weapon on your music staff.
JD: Mary-Mitchell Campbell.

 

	Raúl Esparza in Company
	photo by Paul Kolnik

She won the Drama Desk for orchestrations for your Company. She's arranging and orchestrating Ten Cents a Dance.
JD: She's the best. She's just the best.

Are the musical ideas and instrumental assignments 50/50 you and her? Is it a conversation?
JD: Yeah, I think so. I mean, obviously, I write everything down first of all, almost like a book writer. I put it into context and put on paper what I think the show is. And obviously she is working with melodies that we know and love, and then she and I will talk about tone, mood, quality. She then orchestrates. No! — the next thing is we have to cast it because she can't start orchestrating before we cast it, because you have to know that if you want a clarinet, then you have to have a clarinetist. So, there's a little give and take in there. You always know you have to have a piano player, and you have to have somebody who can play a bass instrument, you have to have somebody who can play a high lyrical instrument. There are certain things that you always need in these shows. But we cast it fairly swiftly because we knew a lot of people, and everybody who we wanted said yes, which was a very nice situation. Other than that, we knew which ingredients were in the pot, we discussed each song. She then went off and orchestrated. She would send me stuff [online] — oh, the glories of modern technology! She would send me dummies. I was in the U.K. and she would send me dummies, and I would say, "That's a great quality," or "Try this — maybe make this a slower song than you think it is," or "Make this song a faster song than you think it is" or "Maybe we can merge these two songs together." And, then you go into the rehearsal room and they have to start with learning a few pieces of music and you start all of that.

But, Mary-Mitchell is unique. I've had three main orchestrators that I've worked with, in this form. All women, all great, all different. But, her greatest skill is that she has no preciousness factor. We'll take a song with the orchestrations and I'll start to stage that. You are staging two things: You are staging the performer and the orchestration, right? …It has to be physicalized or else it's not emotionally potent and strong. Sometimes we can't do that physical work on that particular orchestral line. She is totally fearless about changing it. I mean totally. So, I'll say, "You know what? I think we made a mistake in that number," or "The instruments' swap that is required for that artist to get from there to there is not achievable, so we need to rethink how we get into that song or maybe we don't end that song. Maybe this song should have really been a cappella this whole time. I know you've done a beautiful arrangement, but maybe…" There's her talent. She's a very, very talented orchestrator but she's a wonderful collaborator. And, we have a great laugh, that's what I love about her. We really laugh and laugh. I think the performers think, "They don't seem to care, they are always laughing," but that's just how we are. We do care enormously, but I think, I hope, that our relaxation makes the other people in the room feel relaxed, and that makes them better at what they do because what they do is pretty fearful. It's pretty scary to walk around the room playing cello and singing and being asked to give that an emotional content or, even as a performer, being asked to do one thing with your voice and something different emotionally with your instrument.

Kenneth Jones is managing editor of Playbill.com. Follow him on Twitter @PlaybillKenneth.